Politics

"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
04/24/2020 at 08:33 • Filed to: None

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Turns out that, yes, politicians and non politicians are all just as corrupt. So this November, remember that everyone is the worst choice. We all lose.

DISCUSSION (57)

My bird IS the word > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 08:40

Wouldnt it be nice if, at the very least, politicians weren't hypocrites? Its like they don't even try.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > My bird IS the word
04/24/2020 at 08:42

When it’s your career to lie, cheat, and steal, why bother?

functionoverfashion > My bird IS the word
04/24/2020 at 08:49

It’s amazing - truly amazing - how Trump ran on being an outsider, talking about how he’d get into Washington and “drain the swamp [of corruption]” and yet, he’s certainly among the most corrupt, if not the worst of the worst. His hypocrisy is the most egregious I’ve ever witnessed.

Just Jeepin' > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 08:50

I disagree with “all just as corrupt”. There are spectacular levels of corruption achieved by the current president that haven’t been seen in a long time.

The “both sides are just as bad” dismissal of problems is very damaging.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Just Jeepin'
04/24/2020 at 08:52

This is why we must rip up the constitution and start again.

Poor_Sh > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 08:56

Couldn’t we at least preserve it for a museum though?

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Just Jeepin'
04/24/2020 at 08:57

Agreed, there’s ALWAYS going to be the low level not quite corruption stuff like hiring friends and family as consultants and crap like that. But, Trump takes it to way beyond anything even remotely acceptable.

SpecsGTP > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 09:16

I think you may want to re consider that “rip up the constitution” line. Corruption sucks and nobody hates it more than me, but there is a reason why we are still the most free country in the world, and that reason is the Constitution.

I can agree that enforcement of it has been very lacking, but that’s not a reason to get rid of it.

Ash78, voting early and often > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 09:16

Almost all high-level politicians are weirdly competitive Type A extraverts in some way. Like most celebrities.

I’m just saying that some level of corruption and deceit is almost innate in their very being. But they tend to be the people with the deep pockets, the decades-long political connections, or both.

As rich and white as the Founding Fathers mostly were themselves , I don’t think this is what they had in mind for our political landscape. Honestly, political stance aside, I think Mayor Pete was a close as we came to electing an underdog. And even he was a whitebread Ivy League type.

My bird IS the word > functionoverfashion
04/24/2020 at 09:26

I mean, you can't be suprised on that one. He is a giant middle finger to the establisment though. Every once in a while you need to remind them that they are replaceable, even if the replacement is just as bad.

Wacko > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 09:28

If it continues America is gonna need a self destruct button and start all over. You guys want to become a Canadian province? We have free health care and each of our cities have at least 3-4 Tim Hortons.

Wacko > Poor_Sh
04/24/2020 at 09:29

No it has cheetos stains on it

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Ash78, voting early and often
04/24/2020 at 09:29

I was fine with Yang or Gabbard, as they seemed like the least bought and paid for, but the two current parties are straight up garbage

Sovande > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
04/24/2020 at 09:30

No corruption at any level should be “acceptable.” But it’s amazing what people are willing to overlook when it is their own interests that are being protected or represented.

Ash78, voting early and often > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 09:31

I feel like Trump is a weird caricature of Reagan, like a bad photocopy that got left around in the sun too long. And Biden is almost like a third-cousin of the Kennedies who drew the short straw, or signed up to run while drunk.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 09:31

Remember to vote this November because no matter who wins, America loses!

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Sovande
04/24/2020 at 09:36

I agree, no cor ruption should be acceptable, but there’s a difference between hiring a friend as a consultant compared to say using your companies to enrich yourself on the tax payer dime.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > SpecsGTP
04/24/2020 at 09:39

They could start with the bill of rights (the only part that gives you “ freedom” ) , and then redo the rest of it. The checks and balances laid out stopped applying as soon as the two party system took place. You can’t have j udges be appointed by the Executive branch and confirmed by the Legislative branch if you want them to be unbiased and then interoperate the laws.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Ash78, voting early and often
04/24/2020 at 09:41

Rea gan was just a puppet, and yeah Trump is even more so,

Ash78, voting early and often > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 09:43

At least Death Valley Days , unlike The Apprentice , required longer verbal deliveries and fewer catch phrases to keep it going. That’s important preparation.

functionoverfashion > My bird IS the word
04/24/2020 at 09:48

Right? I mean, I remember as a kid thinking “politician” was synonymous with lying, breaking promises, light corruption, etc. because that’s the language associated with them so much of the time, or at least in my house? But a lot of them, maybe even most of them, are at least trying to do good. Some are really bad. And Trump was like hold my beer

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Ash78, voting early and often
04/24/2020 at 09:54

It’s still amazing how the creators of The Apprentice set out to make a comedy. Their plan was to take an over the top, faile d businessman and have people compete to see who could put up with his shit the longest.

Unfortunately, people took it the wrong way and created the endless feedback loop that is the current incarnation of Trump.

Textured Soy Protein > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 09:56

One is definitely worse than the other. To say they're equally bad and you're not going to choose either is foolish.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Textured Soy Protein
04/24/2020 at 10:03

Look, I vote very left of the line, but the Democratic party is just as corrupt as the Republican party. Everyone is equally bad, and it makes no difference who is elected president, America just so happened to luck into existence with our geography, that no matter who is “ in charge, ” we’ll be just fine.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Just Jeepin'
04/24/2020 at 10:03

Very much this, even if both sides are corrupt at least one side realizes that they still have to at least make an effort to keep the lights on... and not strip out all the copper to sell to a scrap metal dealer “to own the libs”.

My bird IS the word > functionoverfashion
04/24/2020 at 10:10

It’s a psych game. What I mean by that is, they might actually believe they are trying to do good. They just aren’t good people. Very, very few people I have met I can say are truely “good” people, and in all fact it is possible I just don’t know them well enough.

We are selfish and self serving creatures. The two party system isn’t about compromise. The Ds and the Rs just want to destroy the way of life of the people outside their party. There is no tolerance. It’s why I am a Libertarian. that in itself is extremely loaded, but I will say that I am a Libertarian and NOT an Anarchist. The government is necessary, but it needs to stay out of peoples lives. It should not be making health, safety, lifestyle decisions for us. We should all endeavor to just leave each other be. I can guarantee my way of life would not appeal to many, or even most. However, as long as I am not hurting anyone, who gives a shit?

I hate reading politics, as both sides often use entirely disingenuous arguments and don’t address the core issue. It is as if they believe it is easier to look like you are doing your job than to actually do it. Has not ever worked in my experience.

TL:DR people need to intimately be aware of their own flaws before pointing out the flaws of others. If you find few flaws, I assure you there are many. If you think you found them all, you likely haven’t.

Textured Soy Protein > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 10:16

I’m glad you vote the way you do.

While there is certainly corruption in politics, and plenty of undesirable personalities behaving badly, those are not the only things that make one side or the other bad. You have to consider their overall policy goals and how the implementation of their platform will affect people at large.

(I will state here even though it’s not my main point, Trump is a far larger shitbird then Biden on every level.)

It is simply not true that we will be fine regardless of which party is in power.

Each party certainly has its problems, but if you look at their policy goals, at least the Ds come from a perspective of looking for solutions to problems that will hopefully improve people’s quality of life, especially those at the bottom to the middle of the socioeconomic ladder, who could actually use the help.

The Rs are more about taking abstract principles and beliefs and turning them into policy moves that don’t hold up to factual, logical or ethical scrutiny. The primary beneficiaries of their policies are the rich, corporations, landlords, gun nuts, racists, nationalists, and bible thumpers who want to impose their version of morality on people outside their respective religions.

They’ve created an entire right wing anti-truth media bubble where they just make shit up to support these ideas.

These two things are not equally bad.

The reason Republicans love Trump is because all the bad shit they wanted to do but tried to be sneaky about, he just fucking does it and brags about it. Getting rid of him and taking control away from them is more important than any reservations one might have any personality defects or corruption among the Democrats.

Biden was far from my first choice in the primary but you can be damn sure that I'm enthusiastically supporting him now that he's effectively the candidate.

Mid Engine > Wacko
04/24/2020 at 10:25

Sure, cut the Fed and provincial taxes in half and you have a deal

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Textured Soy Protein
04/24/2020 at 10:40

It seems to me that with the current crop of candidates the Democratic party was never going to get a strong runner that resonates with the population at large. Biden may have party loyalty but all these guys are entirely disconnected from the average American. The Democratic candidates generally pretend to care about the common man for at the very least political reasons and party image, but that is often skin deep . I would be interested to see who secures the nomination next year when most of the party stalwarts have aged out of contention.

Wacko > Mid Engine
04/24/2020 at 10:43

psst. thats what pays the universal health care.....

Mid Engine > Wacko
04/24/2020 at 10:47

Yeah, I know. And you get what you pay for as the health care system is run like a MASH unit. My daughter is a nurse in Montreal, and as a Canadian living in the U.S. I see first hand the differences in the systems. Night & day.

Textured Soy Protein > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
04/24/2020 at 10:56

I think most Democrat candidates *do* care about regular people’s problems and try to craft policy along those lines. Their problem is connecting, empathizing and communicating with the people they’re trying to help. Without those things, the policy positions ring hollow.

The #1 thing I feel very strongly that Democrat candidates need to do is realize that there are several factions within the party and each of them has its own concerns. Progressives, women, minorities, organized labor and moderates. Far too many Democrat politicians from each of those factions fail to realize that they need to reach out to all those groups, connect with them, learn their concerns, commit to addressing them, and show results.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
04/24/2020 at 10:58

he Democratic party was never going to get a strong runner that resonates with the population at large. Biden may have party loyalty but all these guys are entirely disconnected from the average American. The Democratic candidates generally pretend to care about the common man for at the very least political reasons and party image, but that is often skin deep.

Now do that with Republicans and Trump and try saying it with a straight face! :P

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
04/24/2020 at 11:03

What, say they are disconnected from the average American? I dislike both frontrunners so it really comes down to how you think they will implement policies they don’t believe in. I never should have got involved in this politics thread.

DipodomysDeserti > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
04/24/2020 at 11:07

“ I would be interested to see who secures the nomination next year when most of the party stalwarts have aged out of contention.”

Nomination for what?

Tapas > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 11:08

Democratic party is far less corrupt than the Republican party.

A part of that difference in corruption is that Democrats are not trying to kill hundreds of thousands of people by wanting to pull back patchy and locally enforced stay at home orders to favor their wealthy business owning donors.

That’s what the “Pro Life” Re publicans are pushing. Don’t forget the mismanagement of this crisis, violation of the emoluments clause, almost triggering WW3, attempting to coll ude with foreign nations to win the election and then request for support during the investigation and many many, many, more things.

That difference is huge and should matter to all people.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Textured Soy Protein
04/24/2020 at 11:08

So at the very least you don’t deny the party stalwarts at the moment are severally disconnected and haven’t sought actual input from their diverse supporters directly. You can’t possibly treat that many different groups as having only a few single political concerns to be addressed, yet that is how they have been treated repeatedly. This problem runs rampant all across the political spectrum, but fundamentally many of those minorities don’t have organized voting power. Moderates have been hung out to dry in these past elections too.

I gotta get busy, so I probably can’t reply again but I’ll read.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > DipodomysDeserti
04/24/2020 at 11:10

*in four years

The Ds will have had time to organize some new candidates without the mad house that was the primaries this year and some new faces will be present.

duurtlang > SpecsGTP
04/24/2020 at 11:14

we are still the most free country in the world

That is a questionable statement though. Among the most free countries in the world, sure . But the most free? Highly q uestionable. Depends on how you define freedom as well, as to some anarchy equals freedom, and to others freedom means that your freedom ends where you infringe on the freedom of someone else.

BigBlock440 > Tapas
04/24/2020 at 11:15

Democratic party is far less corrupt than the Republican party.

I haven’t heard a joke that funny in a long, long time.

PatBateman > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 11:16

Nah.

In the early 1990's, Trump’s company entered into an arrangement and gave 70% of a property he owned in NY to a conglomerate of Hong Kong billionaires in exchange for liquidity and financing. The conglomerate then sold their majority stake to the Vornado Realty Trust. The Trust (not Trump) refinanced the property with several banks, one of which was Bank of China. That loan matures in 2022, which doesn’t mean much (probably some balloon payment element to it, which VRT will handle).

This is a pretty standard high end transaction. I fail to see the corruption you’re intimating.

BigBlock440 > Textured Soy Protein
04/24/2020 at 11:17

That’s the epitome of “I don’t care if my side’s corrupt, the ends justify the means” bullshit.

Textured Soy Protein > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
04/24/2020 at 11:23

I think the Democrats need to pay attention to the examples of Bill Clinton and Obama, who were both very successful with black voters in particular. Because when you look at the electoral college, they’re who is going to tilt the map for a Democrat president. Not only does the black community deserve the attention, getting them to turn out in large numbers is just plain good political strategy.

The states that Biden needs to win are Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. All three have large rural areas full of highly conservative mostly-white people, and urban centers with large black populations that generally vote blue, but are not just going to show up and check the box for any Democrat without some proper motivation. Black communities feel like neither party gives a shit about them and only respond to candidates who show up and make a real commitment to address those communities’ needs. If the Biden campaign is smart, they’ll realize that black turnout in Milwaukee, Detroit and Philadelphia is the key to the oval office. I’m hopeful that they DO realize this, because that’s the play they made in SC to win that primary in a landslide.

Clinton was called “first black president,” by many, because he really did reach out to the black community, make them feel heard, and give them what they wanted. Obama didn’t just be like,”hey guys I’m black too, vote for me,” he engaged meaningfully with the community. Biden has the Obama connection on his side which gives him a leg up but he’s going to have to put in the work.

And this idea holds for all Democrat politicians. Do the old school political work of learning from your constituents what their concerns are and show them concrete plans and results.

Textured Soy Protein > BigBlock440
04/24/2020 at 12:05

I see how that could be read that way, but it’s not my point.

The point here is to acknowledge there is in fact corruption in politics, on both sides. T hat does not mean corruption is equally pervasive on both sides, because the platform espoused by the majority of “movement conservative” Republicans is itself corrupt, pursued by politicians through corrupt means, and supported by corrupt, lying right wing media that broadcasts mass falsehood.

The people who are most guilty of justifying means with ends are so-called values voters who elected a serial philanderer and sexual abuser because he promised to appoint anti-abortion judges for them.

SpecsGTP > duurtlang
04/24/2020 at 12:56

Show me a country where you can still purchase and possess firearms as we can here. How’s about free speech in many parts of the world? We don’t have mandatory conscription, we’ve eliminated the draft, voting and libraries are still at no cost, and you can purchase and live wherever you want. My best buddy’s parents growing up emigrated from Poland in the 1980s; I’d say they have a pretty idea of what freedom looks like.

SpecsGTP > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 12:57

I agree the Bill of Rights is extremely important, but what would a new Constitution look like? How would it be substantially different from what we have now?

DipodomysDeserti > Textured Soy Protein
04/24/2020 at 13:00

“I think the Democrats need to pay attention to the examples of Bill Clinton and Obama, who were both very successful with black voters in particular”

The issue is that minority communities aren’t morons, and saw how little both those guys actually did for them. Pandering to someone, and then doing nothing for them, gets old. And in many parts of the country, black voters are the minority, minority community, with many people of color being completely disenfranchised.

The chickens are eventually going to come home to roost.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > SpecsGTP
04/24/2020 at 13:00

Get rid of the executive branch at the national level

DipodomysDeserti > PatBateman
04/24/2020 at 13:08

For any Hong Kong billionaires out there, I’ll give you a 70% stake in an old GMC, a couple of busted motorcycle and Jeep in exchange for some liquidity and financing. I can be reached via smoke signals or desert tortoise.

SpecsGTP > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 13:08

So only two branches of government? Wouldn’t that make it even easier to appoint political operatives and cronies?

Three branches work as each is as powerful as the other, and each has checks on each other. I’m in Illinois and it is truly a one party system here, so there are ways that all three branches get corrupted.

It’s up to us, the voters to remind the politicians that they work for us, not the other way around. We all own our government, we pay for our government, and need to participate more in our government. Voting is our chance to be heard.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > SpecsGTP
04/24/2020 at 13:26

2 branches makes it much more difficult to appoint as every appointment would have to be voted on. As of right now, thanks to the various power grabs comm it ted by every sitting US president has made the executive branch the most po werful branch if the government. The three branches are not on equal terms.

I w ould also put a 1 term limit on every member of C ongress so that they cannot become career politicians whose only concerns and measures of success being reelection. You remove staying power of these individuals and you remove the influence of corrup tion. You also get rid of citizens united, and the patriot act.

Textured Soy Protein > DipodomysDeserti
04/24/2020 at 13:37

I’m definitely not suggesting pandering to black voters.

The Democrat platform happens to have many things in it that align with black voters’ concerns . The problem is the black community rightly feels as if it’s been fucked over repeatedly, because they have, and they’re skeptical of all politicians. Meanwhile the Democrats often take the black vote for granted because they’re assuming black folks will automatically vote blue because of aligned interests. Black folks *will* vote blue, but mainstream Democrat politicians underestimate the amount of genuine work that needs to be done to earn those votes.

Democrats need to reach out to them, listen, learn, sell, ask for their votes, and help them with any bureaucratic hurdles in the way of voting.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
04/24/2020 at 14:21

Politics and society as a whole only improves if we all communicate - we may disagree but I certainly hope you continue to engage in good faith.

I understand disliking both candidates - I think many people would say so, or at least not care much for either. I’ll go so far as agreeing that they generally may not give 2 craps about the platforms they’re running on either.

But this is the system we have, and one of the candidates is absolutely worse than the other (I’ll go so far as even saying that you’re free to believe which is which). At the end of the day we get the leadership we deserve an earn- and it will only keep getting worse the less we stay engaged.

duurtlang > SpecsGTP
04/24/2020 at 15:03

If your scope is limited to 1980 communist Poland, than I see your point. We live in 2020 though, and there are more countries than 1980 Poland.

Again, I did note that the US is amongst the most free countries in the world. But, contrary to American Exceptionalism, it is not incredibly exceptional in this regard. Similarly free countries tend to have a very different constitution, yet they manage to be similarly free. My point being; constitutional fundamentalism is not warranted here.

SpecsGTP > duurtlang
04/24/2020 at 21:18

Then I'll ask it: name three countries that have as much if not more freedoms than we have in the US in this year of 2020.

SpecsGTP > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
04/24/2020 at 21:39

If only two branches, then who oversees it all?

I agree that the Supreme Court is held hostage because there is no set number and Congress can alter it, but there must be a check on both the executive and legislature.

I agree on term limits, but let's keep it at 2 or 3 terms; one is just impractical.

duurtlang > SpecsGTP
04/25/2020 at 07:36

Just as an example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World

Finland, Norway and Sweden score the full 100 points, Netherlands 99, Canada 98, and so on. USA: 86 (rank #53)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices

Index of economic freedoms: USA: “mostly free”. However, the countries Australia, Hong Kong, Ireland, New Zealand, Singapore and Switzerland score “free”.

Press Freedom Index: USA scores “satisfactory situation”. However, 14 countries score “good situation”

Democracy index: USA scores “flawed democracy”. However, 22 countries score “full democracy”.

So, as a direct answer to your question: most of western en northern Europe, Canada, Australia and a few others are as free or more free than the USA.